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<DIV>I'm in total agreement there, uniform dots across an entire canvas via
magnifier, and nobody thought to check that out? And they were giving it a
prestigious award?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Years ago I knew an amateur artist who decided to make a painting using
watercolours as if they were oils, straight out of the tube. When the
thing was done, it did indeed look like oil on paper, except that brush marks
disappeared -- the texture of the painting was, of course, violently affected by
humidity even behind glass, and I think finally drooled away. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The dynasty of drybrush watercolour would arguably appear to be the Wyeth
family, although Steven Hanks is right in there somewhere. The
work is extremely realistic, but there is always some portion of it
painterly enough to remind you that it is a painting. One of the Wyeths
once said watercolour was his wild side and tempera his disciplined side.
No dots.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I hadn't heard the idea of avoiding watercolours because they
might be faked; computers have made it possible to do all kinds of things
to any artwork in any media -- I don't have the newest editions of Painter
or Paint Shop Pro, perhaps most of you do, but I can create all kinds of
effects on a photograph with either program; I don't have an expensive
printer, but if I chose to buy an Iris or similar, I guess I could mess
around and kick out giclee prints to sell. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thing is, I claim to be an artist aspiring to be a painter, not a
printer. So where do you go with that? What do you think AWS should
do, besides wipe off the copious egg from the face?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>pat chapin</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.patchapin.com">www.patchapin.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=miriams0@yahoo.com href="mailto:miriams0@yahoo.com">miriam</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net
href="mailto:Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net">Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Aquanet] AWS
controversy</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookman old style,new york,times,serif">about
style: If you could copyright a style then you wouldn't have art
movements...eg The Impressionists etc<BR><BR>about this painter:<BR>we are
watercolorists and we all know that water moves ...well that is what makes it
fun...but I can't see how it is possible to have uniform dots across an entire
canvas. So it should be apparent under a magnifying glass if the dot pattern
seems machine made with precisely the same size dots precisely spread appart
or if there are slight differences in her dots in either the spacing or
size.<BR><BR>Here is a link that an eBay artist put together about "fake
watercolors" I really hated this finger pointing since I used to primarily do
realistic watercolors I hated to think that a collector would doubt the
authenticity of <SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">my </SPAN>work! And these
artists do much to discredit watercolor art.<BR><A
href="http://reviews.ebay.com/How-To-Spot-Fake-Watercolors-on-eBay-Avoid-Art-Fraud_W0QQugidZ10000000002116980">http://reviews.ebay.com/How-To-Spot-Fake-Watercolors-on-eBay-Avoid-Art-Fraud_W0QQugidZ10000000002116980</A><BR>
<DIV> </DIV>***************************************************************************
<BR>Artist website : <A href="http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com"
target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com</A><BR>I have
an <A href="http://schulmanart.blogspot.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>ART
BLOG!</A><BR>Miriam Schulman<BR>917-750-5664 cell<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: bookman old style,new york,times,serif"><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">-----
Original Message ----<BR>From: "patchapin@mindspring.com"
<patchapin@mindspring.com><BR>To: Betul Aydiner
<betulaydiner@superonline.com>;
Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net<BR>Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:38:41
PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy<BR><BR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Ah, so then AWS actually displayed the thing
and DID have the opportunity to examine it -- thanks for posting that,
Betul! The very thought of using three-hair brushes and magnifying glass
to paint makes my nose twitch, but I had to wonder how one could really
accomplish her "hyperrealism" with drybrush, and using a pointillism technique
as she stated. Of course, trust for authority has never been a strong
point of mine, and AWS thus deserves whatever sort of whacking it needs to
take. Tsk...............</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">I have watched ceramic and tile artists call
things 'hand painted' through the years, when all they did was exactly what
you say, do a transfer and then add two or three strokes. I always felt
that this was one of the reasons people still flinched from calling most of
them true 'artists'. So it makes it worse when something like this goes
public, as the assumption is that we probably all do it, or at least the
public can feel better about being doubtful. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">pat chapin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><A href="http://www.patchapin.com"
target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.patchapin.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=betulaydiner@superonline.com
href="mailto:betulaydiner@superonline.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:betulaydiner@superonline.com">Betul Aydiner</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>To:</B>
<A title=miriams0@yahoo.com href="mailto:miriams0@yahoo.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:miriams0@yahoo.com">miriam</A> ; <A
title=debbie@cannatella.net href="mailto:debbie@cannatella.net"
target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:debbie@cannatella.net">debbie@cannatella.net</A> ; <A
title=aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net
href="mailto:aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow
ymailto="mailto:aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net">aquanet</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:11 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi All,<BR><BR>I had the chance of seeing the actual
painting, being in NY then. I come from a miniature painting family. I have
seen work produced by members of my family using 3-hair brushesand
magnifying glasses, but that painting (!) was a dilemma. The only time you
can see "brush strokes" in watercolors is when dry brush is used. Otherwise
color flows and dissolves in each other. I searched for dry brush in the
hairs of the old man, but couldn't find any. And I had my doubts on wet
shading a single strand of hair, then you can't see the brush. The board
wall could be painted like that, I thought, though one would have to spend
real thought and planning and use masking fluid at places, too good to be
true...Being only 5'1" I couldn't get any closer too. I had serious doubts
of it being a "painting" myself, but I thought AWS would be a better judge
than me :) Trust for authority is wowen into our cells apparently. <BR><BR>I
totally agree with Miriam that style cannot be copyrighted, every teacher on
any form of art primarily teaches their own style. If it was copyrighted
there wouldn't be the "teaching" institutions.<BR><BR>Being a ceramist by
profession and having had my commercial workshop for 20 years, I met owners
of other workshops who claimed they were painting on glaze by hand. What
they actually did was using ceramic transfers, but they were adding a few
brush strokes here and there before firing the whole thing. I am not
familiar with terms "fake watercolor" or "washed print", but in my
terminology I would say that it could be a "watercolor enhanced"
print.<BR><BR><BR>It is good that this group wasn't demolished
:)<BR><BR><BR>Betul from Istanbul<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- Orjinal mesaj
---<BR>From: miriam <BR>To: , aquanet <BR>Cc: <BR>Sent: Tue Sep 16 21:18:34
EEST 2008<BR>Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy<BR><BR><BR>You can't
copyright a style.<BR><BR><BR>I think what is more shocking than<BR>that she
infringed on another's copyright, was the possibility<BR>that it is a "fake
watercolor" ( a washed print)<BR>So it is a black mark on AWS as
well.<BR><BR>***************************************************************************
<BR>Artist website : <A href="http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com"
target=_blank>http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com</A><BR>I have an ART
BLOG!<BR>Miriam Schulman<BR>917-750-5664
cell<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Debbie
Cannatella <BR>To: aquanet <BR>Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:49:19
PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy<BR><BR>I was shocked to see
this. I found the painting brillianly executed and<BR>had bragged about it
myself.<BR><BR>My friend, Paul Jackson, AWS said the same thing to me this
morning in an<BR>email. He's met the Canadian artist at the exhibition. I
believe that the<BR>law is on her side, though. Paul tells me that by
combining the two images<BR>she makes a completely new and original image.
Copyright law says 11%<BR>different is a new image. Ethically however, she's
way over the line and<BR>professionally she's now pretty tainted. I wouldn't
want to have to live<BR>that down.<BR><BR>I have gotten permission from
people to paint from their vacation<BR>photographs before, but now I stick
to my own location sketches, value<BR>sketches, and resource
photos.<BR><BR>This brings up another question for me. If one learns a new
technique in a<BR>workshop and it really speaks to them, then is using that
technique<BR>"copying" another artist's style? I especially wonder about
this in<BR>abstract or collage work. I spent many years in the engineering
field and<BR>was doing some experimental artwork using geometric shapes that
I used in<BR>my highway and bridge design. Then I attended a workshop by an
artist who<BR>used similar shapes with a similar technique... and her
technique was much<BR>more brilliant in color than mine. So I bought the
brand of paint that she<BR>used and tried out it out on Yupo, rather than
watercolor paper as I had<BR>been doing... and I just love the results.
Though the compositions are<BR>completely mine, the result looks like her
paintings! I don't do much<BR>experimental work. I'm primarily a realist
painter, but I have enjoyed<BR>this new technique and want to work more in
it.<BR><BR>I can be more specific if you all need... but I'm just curious
about all<BR>these artists (including me) that teach workshops all over...
do they<BR>expect their students to NOT use what they teach? This workshop
instructor<BR>clearly learned the technique from another... and things adapt
and change<BR>as they are passed on and one makes it their own... but where
is the line<BR>drawn?<BR><BR>Debbie Cannatella<BR><A
href="http://www.cannatella.net"
target=_blank>www.cannatella.net</A><BR><BR><BR>> Since it seems to be
quiet here on the Aquanet list, I thought I'd pass<BR>> along something
that has become a heated discussion on the Wet Canvas<BR>> website.
Apparently, the gold medal winner at the 2008 American Watercolor<BR>>
Society show has been accused of copyright infringement. The painting
in<BR>> question is a combination of two photographs taken by a
photographer who<BR>> claims not to have given the winning artist
permission to reproduce the<BR>> images. In addition, there seems to be
some question as to whether the<BR>> winning painting is really a
painting at all or, perhaps, a high quality<BR>> print. The "print or
painting" discussion has arisen among photographers<BR>> who<BR>>
point to a flaw in the photo being visible in the winning
painting.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Here's the link to the ongoing
discussion at Wet Canvas (be advised it's<BR>> already 14 pages long and
still growing) . . .<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515288"
target=_blank>http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515288</A><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
If the gold medal winner is ultimately proven to be a fraud, it would
seem<BR>> to put the AWS in a very awkward position, especially if the
"painting"<BR>> turns out not to be a painting at all. As someone who's
never entered a<BR>> show, I'm fascinated by this story and somewhat
surprised that a<BR>> prestigious<BR>> group such as the AWS doesn't
do more stringent "vetting" of submissions<BR>> to<BR>> its annual
show.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Jack<BR>><BR>> Aquanet mailing
list<BR>> Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net<BR>> <A
href="http://lists.thedigitalbraintrust.net/mailman/listinfo/aquanet"
target=_blank>http://lists.thedigitalbraintrust.net/mailman/listinfo/aquanet</A><BR>><BR>>
Check out the Aquanet web site:<BR>> <A href="http://www.aquanetart.com"
target=_blank>http://www.aquanetart.com</A><BR><BR>Aquanet mailing
list<BR>Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net<BR>http://lists.thedigitalbraintrust.net/mailman/listinfo/aquanet<BR><BR>Check
out the Aquanet web
site:<BR>http://www.aquanetart.com<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Aquanet mailing
list<BR>Aquanet@thedigitalbraintrust.net<BR>http://lists.thedigitalbraintrust.net/mailman/listinfo/aquanet<BR><BR>Check
out the Aquanet web site:<BR>http://www.aquanetart.com<BR><BR>
<P><A href="http://www.betulaydiner.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.betulaydiner.com/</A> <BR></P>
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