[Aquanet] AWS controversy
patchapin at mindspring.com
patchapin at mindspring.com
Tue Sep 16 16:53:39 EDT 2008
I'm in total agreement there, uniform dots across an entire canvas via magnifier, and nobody thought to check that out? And they were giving it a prestigious award?
Years ago I knew an amateur artist who decided to make a painting using watercolours as if they were oils, straight out of the tube. When the thing was done, it did indeed look like oil on paper, except that brush marks disappeared -- the texture of the painting was, of course, violently affected by humidity even behind glass, and I think finally drooled away.
The dynasty of drybrush watercolour would arguably appear to be the Wyeth family, although Steven Hanks is right in there somewhere. The work is extremely realistic, but there is always some portion of it painterly enough to remind you that it is a painting. One of the Wyeths once said watercolour was his wild side and tempera his disciplined side. No dots.
I hadn't heard the idea of avoiding watercolours because they might be faked; computers have made it possible to do all kinds of things to any artwork in any media -- I don't have the newest editions of Painter or Paint Shop Pro, perhaps most of you do, but I can create all kinds of effects on a photograph with either program; I don't have an expensive printer, but if I chose to buy an Iris or similar, I guess I could mess around and kick out giclee prints to sell.
Thing is, I claim to be an artist aspiring to be a painter, not a printer. So where do you go with that? What do you think AWS should do, besides wipe off the copious egg from the face?
pat chapin
www.patchapin.com
----- Original Message -----
From: miriam
To: Aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy
about style: If you could copyright a style then you wouldn't have art movements...eg The Impressionists etc
about this painter:
we are watercolorists and we all know that water moves ...well that is what makes it fun...but I can't see how it is possible to have uniform dots across an entire canvas. So it should be apparent under a magnifying glass if the dot pattern seems machine made with precisely the same size dots precisely spread appart or if there are slight differences in her dots in either the spacing or size.
Here is a link that an eBay artist put together about "fake watercolors" I really hated this finger pointing since I used to primarily do realistic watercolors I hated to think that a collector would doubt the authenticity of my work! And these artists do much to discredit watercolor art.
http://reviews.ebay.com/How-To-Spot-Fake-Watercolors-on-eBay-Avoid-Art-Fraud_W0QQugidZ10000000002116980
***************************************************************************
Artist website : http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com
I have an ART BLOG!
Miriam Schulman
917-750-5664 cell
----- Original Message ----
From: "patchapin at mindspring.com" <patchapin at mindspring.com>
To: Betul Aydiner <betulaydiner at superonline.com>; Aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:38:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy
Ah, so then AWS actually displayed the thing and DID have the opportunity to examine it -- thanks for posting that, Betul! The very thought of using three-hair brushes and magnifying glass to paint makes my nose twitch, but I had to wonder how one could really accomplish her "hyperrealism" with drybrush, and using a pointillism technique as she stated. Of course, trust for authority has never been a strong point of mine, and AWS thus deserves whatever sort of whacking it needs to take. Tsk...............
I have watched ceramic and tile artists call things 'hand painted' through the years, when all they did was exactly what you say, do a transfer and then add two or three strokes. I always felt that this was one of the reasons people still flinched from calling most of them true 'artists'. So it makes it worse when something like this goes public, as the assumption is that we probably all do it, or at least the public can feel better about being doubtful.
pat chapin
www.patchapin.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Betul Aydiner
To: miriam ; debbie at cannatella.net ; aquanet
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy
Hi All,
I had the chance of seeing the actual painting, being in NY then. I come from a miniature painting family. I have seen work produced by members of my family using 3-hair brushesand magnifying glasses, but that painting (!) was a dilemma. The only time you can see "brush strokes" in watercolors is when dry brush is used. Otherwise color flows and dissolves in each other. I searched for dry brush in the hairs of the old man, but couldn't find any. And I had my doubts on wet shading a single strand of hair, then you can't see the brush. The board wall could be painted like that, I thought, though one would have to spend real thought and planning and use masking fluid at places, too good to be true...Being only 5'1" I couldn't get any closer too. I had serious doubts of it being a "painting" myself, but I thought AWS would be a better judge than me :) Trust for authority is wowen into our cells apparently.
I totally agree with Miriam that style cannot be copyrighted, every teacher on any form of art primarily teaches their own style. If it was copyrighted there wouldn't be the "teaching" institutions.
Being a ceramist by profession and having had my commercial workshop for 20 years, I met owners of other workshops who claimed they were painting on glaze by hand. What they actually did was using ceramic transfers, but they were adding a few brush strokes here and there before firing the whole thing. I am not familiar with terms "fake watercolor" or "washed print", but in my terminology I would say that it could be a "watercolor enhanced" print.
It is good that this group wasn't demolished :)
Betul from Istanbul
--- Orjinal mesaj ---
From: miriam
To: , aquanet
Cc:
Sent: Tue Sep 16 21:18:34 EEST 2008
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy
You can't copyright a style.
I think what is more shocking than
that she infringed on another's copyright, was the possibility
that it is a "fake watercolor" ( a washed print)
So it is a black mark on AWS as well.
***************************************************************************
Artist website : http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com
I have an ART BLOG!
Miriam Schulman
917-750-5664 cell
----- Original Message ----
From: Debbie Cannatella
To: aquanet
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:49:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy
I was shocked to see this. I found the painting brillianly executed and
had bragged about it myself.
My friend, Paul Jackson, AWS said the same thing to me this morning in an
email. He's met the Canadian artist at the exhibition. I believe that the
law is on her side, though. Paul tells me that by combining the two images
she makes a completely new and original image. Copyright law says 11%
different is a new image. Ethically however, she's way over the line and
professionally she's now pretty tainted. I wouldn't want to have to live
that down.
I have gotten permission from people to paint from their vacation
photographs before, but now I stick to my own location sketches, value
sketches, and resource photos.
This brings up another question for me. If one learns a new technique in a
workshop and it really speaks to them, then is using that technique
"copying" another artist's style? I especially wonder about this in
abstract or collage work. I spent many years in the engineering field and
was doing some experimental artwork using geometric shapes that I used in
my highway and bridge design. Then I attended a workshop by an artist who
used similar shapes with a similar technique... and her technique was much
more brilliant in color than mine. So I bought the brand of paint that she
used and tried out it out on Yupo, rather than watercolor paper as I had
been doing... and I just love the results. Though the compositions are
completely mine, the result looks like her paintings! I don't do much
experimental work. I'm primarily a realist painter, but I have enjoyed
this new technique and want to work more in it.
I can be more specific if you all need... but I'm just curious about all
these artists (including me) that teach workshops all over... do they
expect their students to NOT use what they teach? This workshop instructor
clearly learned the technique from another... and things adapt and change
as they are passed on and one makes it their own... but where is the line
drawn?
Debbie Cannatella
www.cannatella.net
> Since it seems to be quiet here on the Aquanet list, I thought I'd pass
> along something that has become a heated discussion on the Wet Canvas
> website. Apparently, the gold medal winner at the 2008 American Watercolor
> Society show has been accused of copyright infringement. The painting in
> question is a combination of two photographs taken by a photographer who
> claims not to have given the winning artist permission to reproduce the
> images. In addition, there seems to be some question as to whether the
> winning painting is really a painting at all or, perhaps, a high quality
> print. The "print or painting" discussion has arisen among photographers
> who
> point to a flaw in the photo being visible in the winning painting.
>
>
>
> Here's the link to the ongoing discussion at Wet Canvas (be advised it's
> already 14 pages long and still growing) . . .
>
>
>
> http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515288
>
>
>
> If the gold medal winner is ultimately proven to be a fraud, it would seem
> to put the AWS in a very awkward position, especially if the "painting"
> turns out not to be a painting at all. As someone who's never entered a
> show, I'm fascinated by this story and somewhat surprised that a
> prestigious
> group such as the AWS doesn't do more stringent "vetting" of submissions
> to
> its annual show.
>
>
>
> Jack
>
> Aquanet mailing list
> Aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net
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>
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