[Aquanet] AWS controversy

Tue Sep 16 16:22:41 EDT 2008

about style: If you could copyright a style then you wouldn't have art movements...eg The Impressionists etc

about this painter:
we are watercolorists and we all know that water moves ...well that is what makes it fun...but I can't see how it is possible to have uniform dots across an entire canvas. So it should be apparent under a magnifying glass if the dot pattern seems machine made with precisely the same size dots precisely spread appart or if there are slight differences in her dots in either the spacing or size.

Here is a link that an eBay artist put together about "fake watercolors" I really hated this finger pointing since I used to primarily do realistic watercolors I hated to think that a collector would doubt the authenticity of my work! And these artists do much to discredit watercolor art.
http://reviews.ebay.com/How-To-Spot-Fake-Watercolors-on-eBay-Avoid-Art-Fraud_W0QQugidZ10000000002116980

 *************************************************************************** 
Artist website : http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com
I have an ART BLOG!
Miriam Schulman
917-750-5664 cell

----- Original Message ----
From: "patchapin at mindspring.com" <patchapin at mindspring.com>
To: Betul Aydiner <betulaydiner at superonline.com>; Aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:38:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy

Ah, so then AWS actually displayed the thing and 
DID have the opportunity to examine it -- thanks for posting that, 
Betul! The very thought of using three-hair brushes and magnifying glass to 
paint makes my nose twitch, but I had to wonder how one could really accomplish 
her "hyperrealism" with drybrush, and using a pointillism technique as she 
stated.  Of course, trust for authority has never been a strong point of 
mine, and AWS thus deserves whatever sort of whacking it needs to take.  
Tsk...............

I have watched ceramic and tile artists call 
things 'hand painted' through the years, when all they did was exactly what you 
say, do a transfer and then add two or three strokes.  I always felt that 
this was one of the reasons people still flinched from calling most of them true 
'artists'.  So it makes it worse when something like this goes public, as 
the assumption is that we probably all do it, or at least the public can feel 
better about being doubtful.  

pat chapin
www.patchapin.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Betul Aydiner 
To: miriam ; debbie at cannatella.net ; aquanet 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:11  PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS  controversy
Hi All,

I had the chance of seeing the actual painting,  being in NY then. I come from a miniature painting family. I have seen work  produced by members of my family using 3-hair brushesand magnifying glasses,  but that painting (!) was a dilemma. The only time you can see "brush strokes"  in watercolors is when dry brush is used. Otherwise color flows and dissolves  in each other. I searched for dry brush in the hairs of the old man, but  couldn't find any. And I had my doubts on wet shading a single strand of hair,  then you can't see the brush. The board wall could be painted like that, I  thought, though one would have to spend real thought and planning and use  masking fluid at places, too good to be true...Being only 5'1" I couldn't get  any closer too. I had serious doubts of it being a "painting" myself, but I  thought AWS would be a better judge than me :) Trust for authority is wowen  into our cells apparently. 

I totally agree with Miriam that style  cannot be copyrighted, every teacher on any form of art primarily teaches  their own style. If it was copyrighted there wouldn't be the "teaching"  institutions.

Being a ceramist by profession and having had my  commercial workshop for 20 years, I met owners of other workshops who claimed  they were painting on glaze by hand. What they actually did was using ceramic  transfers, but they were adding a few brush strokes here and there before  firing the whole thing. I am not familiar with terms "fake watercolor" or  "washed print", but in my terminology I would say that it could be a  "watercolor enhanced" print.

It is good that this group wasn't  demolished :)

Betul from Istanbul

--- Orjinal  mesaj ---
From: miriam 
To: ,  aquanet 
Cc: 
Sent: Tue Sep 16  21:18:34 EEST 2008
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy

You  can't copyright a style.

I think what is more shocking than
that  she infringed on another's copyright, was the possibility
that it is a  "fake watercolor" ( a washed print)
So it is a black mark on AWS as  well.

*************************************************************************** 
Artist website : http://www.MiriamSchulmanStudio.com
I have an ART  BLOG!
Miriam Schulman
917-750-5664 cell

-----  Original Message ----
From: Debbie Cannatella 
To: aquanet 
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008  12:49:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] AWS controversy

I was shocked to  see this. I found the painting brillianly executed and
had bragged about it  myself.

My friend, Paul Jackson, AWS said the same thing to me this  morning in an
email. He's met the Canadian artist at the exhibition. I  believe that the
law is on her side, though. Paul tells me that by  combining the two images
she makes a completely new and original image.  Copyright law says 11%
different is a new image. Ethically however, she's  way over the line and
professionally she's now pretty tainted. I wouldn't  want to have to live
that down.

I have gotten permission from people  to paint from their vacation
photographs before, but now I stick to my own  location sketches, value
sketches, and resource photos.

This brings  up another question for me. If one learns a new technique in a
workshop and  it really speaks to them, then is using that technique
"copying" another  artist's style? I especially wonder about this in
abstract or collage work.  I spent many years in the engineering field and
was doing some experimental  artwork using geometric shapes that I used in
my highway and bridge design.  Then I attended a workshop by an artist who
used similar shapes with a  similar technique... and her technique was much
more brilliant in color  than mine. So I bought the brand of paint that she
used and tried out it  out on Yupo, rather than watercolor paper as I had
been doing... and I just  love the results. Though the compositions are
completely mine, the result  looks like her paintings! I don't do much
experimental work. I'm primarily  a realist painter, but I have enjoyed
this new technique and want to work  more in it.

I can be more specific if you all need... but I'm just  curious about all
these artists (including me) that teach workshops all  over... do they
expect their students to NOT use what they teach? This  workshop instructor
clearly learned the technique from another... and  things adapt and change
as they are passed on and one makes it their own...  but where is the line
drawn?

Debbie  Cannatella
www.cannatella.net

> Since it seems to be quiet  here on the Aquanet list, I thought I'd pass
> along something that has  become a heated discussion on the Wet Canvas
> website. Apparently, the  gold medal winner at the 2008 American Watercolor
> Society show has  been accused of copyright infringement. The painting in
> question is a  combination of two photographs taken by a photographer who
> claims not  to have given the winning artist permission to reproduce the
> images.  In addition, there seems to be some question as to whether the
> winning  painting is really a painting at all or, perhaps, a high quality
>  print. The "print or painting" discussion has arisen among  photographers
> who
> point to a flaw in the photo being visible  in the winning painting.
>
>
>
> Here's the link to  the ongoing discussion at Wet Canvas (be advised it's
> already 14 pages  long and still growing) . . .
>
>
>
> http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515288
>
>
>
>  If the gold medal winner is ultimately proven to be a fraud, it would  seem
> to put the AWS in a very awkward position, especially if the  "painting"
> turns out not to be a painting at all. As someone who's  never entered a
> show, I'm fascinated by this story and somewhat  surprised that a
> prestigious
> group such as the AWS doesn't do  more stringent "vetting" of submissions
> to
> its annual  show.
>
>
>
> Jack
>
> Aquanet mailing  list
> Aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net
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>
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> http://www.aquanetart.com

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