[Aquanet] a question of scarlet

Wed Mar 5 16:16:32 EST 2008

I like Holbein but...

brown madder ( red, really)...similar to cad but very transparent
carmine is a good red.
winsor red ( very) cool

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----- Original Message ----
From: "patchapin at mindspring.com" <patchapin at mindspring.com>
To: pat davis <peedee at nucleus.com>
Cc: aquanet <aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 3:12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] a question of scarlet

Well, as a paint junkie from years back, not to mention one who has had to 
fight the 'reds' fight often based on subject matter, guess I can throw in 
here.

Back in the dark ages when I was in art school, there were only a couple of 
reds: Alizarin Crimson and Scarlet Vermillion (one cool, one warm), the 
latter of which was found not to be desirable on a safety basis I don't even 
recall any longer; and Napthol creeping around in the background.  Then 
Cadmium burst on the scene,  now followed by their chemical babies the 
Quinacridones, Anthraquinoids and et ceteras.  About the time the Cads 
showed up, I was out from under the Limited Palette approach, and in the 
marketplace where results, and fast, counted more than anything.  A lot of 
people quit using the Cads on a safety basis in the fine art world, but not 
otherwise.

With the exception of the Alizarin, just about all of them have transparency 
limitations (Alizarin has got all the other problems). Grumbacher started 
marketing Alizarin Crimson Golden trying to get a warm red, and it was a 
nice try, but no cigar for sure.  And in the way of paint manufacturers, 
everybody tried out new names and new combinations of pigments to get us all 
to buy more paint.
I've bought most of them, and that said, I have to say that there's probably 
a favourite out there for each of us, and not one the same.

I have a hard time understanding, for instance, why Perylene Scarlet can 
manage to be semi-transparent, but Perylene Red operates like house paint; 
why Quinacridone Red seems to be a wimpy version of Alizarin, or 
Quinacridone Coral is such a great colour while Ultramarine Red isn't even 
red; why Holbein cannot seem to manufacture a good red when they have some 
really neat colours.  But when you need a certain handling quality or a 
certain tone, it definitely pays to know your adversary but also to know 
your subject matter.

If I was painting a red barn in the sunshine as it looks in the light of the 
West, for instance, I'd reach for my Daniel Smith Deep Scarlet; take that 
barn to the South, however, and I'll want Alizarin Crimson 
Golden(Grumbacher).  When I need an orange hue, I mix New Gamboge with any 
rose.  I don't care for Cadmium red only because it is so opaque that for 
me, it goes dead easily,but the Perylene and Quinacridone Coral tones don't. 
I'm still searching for something that the Ultramarine Red would be good for 
(I've owned it many years).

So alas, I think you have to fight the battle, buy tiny tubes until you know 
what you want; and never, never buy any colour in student grade paint, but 
especially not a red.  Insofar as spanning from cool to warm in reds -- what 
a brave person, is all I can say.....................  But I think for each 
of us the choice has got to be different simply due to what we paint, how we 
paint, and perhaps how we feel about reds?

pat chapin
www.patchapin.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pat davis" <peedee at nucleus.com>
Cc: "aquanet" <aquanet at thedigitalbraintrust.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Aquanet] a question of scarlet

>
>
> Lorraine Dietrich wrote:
>> I like permanent Red from Da Vinci very much. Very bright red, lots of
>> power.
>> Naphthol Red. I love it. It has punch, tinctorial, very handsome , a
>> real Gypsy color
>
> Carrie contributed:
>
>> Graham makes one called "Naphthol Red" that I like for that cad rd light 
>> color but it is very transparent.  A little goes a long way.  I still use 
>> cad orange so if I want to knock it down a little, that's where I go.
>
> I do have naphthol red, Graham of course, but to my eye it appears to be
> maybe a spectrum red; that is, pretty much right in the middle of the
> reds, between scarlets and crimsons. I was thinking of a red a bit more
> to the scarlet  than that.
>
> Brad said the following:
>
>> I have so many problems using reds that I finally realized that the
>> best I can do is help the viewer see just how confused I am when I
>> look at reds.  I have a whole bunch of tubes of different reds, but I
>> am happiest with the results when I span a wide range of warm to cool
>> reds that bracket the local color (more like hot to cold).
> I'm thinking that maybe this is the answer as it would save me being
> hung up on any specific colour. My work tends to ignore real-to-life
> colours anyway, so I guess I'm fretting about this because... uh ...I'm
> neurotic? I'm still in the phase where I believe that getting exactly
> the right shade will move my work from mundane to marvellous? I think
> maybe I need professional help?
>
> your gibbering friend
> pat
>
>
>
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